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Inside Selection Sunday: Mapnalysis '18

October 21, 2018

By Geoff Kimmerly
Second Half editor

For a fading moment, we thought we saw the Big Dipper floating through the second floor of the MHSAA office Sunday morning.

Michigan’s northernmost high school in Calumet held the handle – but the only place the rest of the Region pointed was to questions about how we could come up with such a disjointed scenario for this season’s Division 6 Playoffs.

Below – as has become an annual tradition – we’ll answer that question and a few more about this year’s selection process.

Our mission Sunday was to map 213 automatic qualifiers for 11-player football – and a record 43 additional qualifiers with 5-4 or 4-4 records – plus our top 32 8-player teams across 10 divisions of playoffs that will conclude with the latter Nov. 17 at Northern Michigan University and 11-player Nov. 23-24 at Ford Field.

As often noted in the past, this process didn’t start Sunday morning – but months and in some cases more than a year ago when athletic directors began scheduling games for this fall. We make sure all are loaded into our system by early summer, and then follow every score/cancellation/forfeit/additional change through Week 9’s final games – including this season those for 46 teams from other states or Ontario that played Michigan schools and needed to be followed as well because their successes affected MHSAA teams’ strengths of schedule.

Now that the maps are drawn, we line up all that will come with the next five weeks of games including assigning officials, gathering potential Semifinal sites and continuing our work with our Finals hosts to create memorable experiences as teams play for championships.

So we’re off. For those familiar with our playoff selection process, or who have read this report in the past and don’t want a refresher on how we do what we do, skip the next section and go directly to the “Observations & Answers: 2018.” For the rest, what follows is an explanation of how we selected the playoff pairings during the morning hours Sunday, followed by how we made some of the toughest decisions plus a few thoughts on the breakdown of the field. Go to this page on MHSAA.com to see the pairings in full.

Ground Rules

Our past: The MHSAA 11-player playoff structure – with 256 teams in eight divisions, and six wins equaling an automatic berth (or five wins for teams playing eight or fewer games) – debuted in 1999. An 8-player tournament was added in 2011, and in 2017 a second division of 8-player football was introduced.

The first playoffs were conducted in 1975 with four champions. Four more football classes were added in 1990 for a total of eight champions each fall. Through 1998, only 128 teams made the postseason, based on their playoff point averages within regions (four for each class) that were drawn before the beginning of the season. The drawing of Districts and Regionals after the end of the regular season did not begin until the most recent 11-player playoff expansion.

In early years of the current process, lines were drawn by hand. Dots representing qualifying schools were pasted on maps, one map for each division, and those maps were then covered by plastic sheets. Districts and Regionals literally were drawn with dry-erase markers.

Our present: After a late Saturday night tracking scores, we file in Sunday morning for a final round of gathering results we may still need (which can include making a few early a.m. calls to athletic directors and coaches). Re-checking and triple-checking of enrollments, what schools played in co-ops and opted to play as a higher class start a week in advance, and more numbers are crunched Sunday morning as the fields are set.

As noted above, this season there were 213 automatic qualifiers for the 11-player field by win total with the final 43 additional qualifiers then selected, by playoff-point average, one from each class in order (A, B, C, D) until the field was filled. There were only five Class D additional qualifiers with 5-4 or 4-4 (playing eight games) records from which we could choose – so with those five we added 13 teams from Class A and B and 12 from Class C.

Those 256 11-player teams are then split into eight equal divisions based on enrollment, and their locations are marked on digital maps that are projected on wall-size screens and then discussed by nearly half of the MHSAA staff plus a representative from the Michigan High School Football Coaches Association. Only the locations themselves are marked (by red dots) – not records, playoff point averages or names of the schools or towns. In fact, mentions of those are strictly prohibited. Records and playoff points are not part of the criteria. Matchups, rivalries, previous playoff pairings, etc. also DO NOT come into play.

The 8-player process is different for team selection and similar for designation of Regionals. We take the top 32 teams in 8-player based on playoff point average as our field, then re-sort those 32 by enrollment – the 16 biggest make up Division 1, followed by the next 16 in Division 2. There are no automatic qualifiers by record for 8-player.

Geography rules: This long has been rule number one for drawing MHSAA brackets in any sport. Travel distance and ease DO come into play. Jumping on a major highway clearly is easier than driving across county-wide back roads, and that’s taken into consideration. Also, remember there’s only one Mackinac Bridge and hence only one way to cross between peninsulas – and boats are not considered a possible form of transportation. When opponents from both peninsulas will be in the same District, distance to the bridge is far more important than as the bird flies.

Tradition doesn’t reign: Every group of 32 (or in 8-player, 16) dots is a new group – these 32 teams have not been placed in a bracket together before. How maps have been drawn in the past isn’t considered – it’s hard to say a division has been drawn in a certain way traditionally when this set of 32 teams is making up a division for the first time.

Observations & Answers: 2018

We always start with CONGRATULATIONS: And this season they go first to Detroit Community, Detroit Public Safety Academy and Dexter, which made the MHSAA Football Playoffs for the first time. Of 611 football varsities across the state, all but 12 have made the playoffs at least once. Rockford missed out on an automatic bid with a Week 9 loss, but received an additional qualifier berth to set the record by making the MHSAA Playoffs for the 24th straight season. Crystal Falls Forest Park (22 seasons), Stevensville Lakeshore (21), Macomb Dakota (18), Climax-Scotts (16) and Grand Rapids West Catholic (16) also extended their stays on the list for longest MHSAA playoff streaks.

Break the tie: We again had to break a tie (actually two for District rounds) as teams that will or could meet ended up with the same playoff point averages. Ties are broken by head-to-head competition first – if the teams played each other during the regular season – followed by opponents’ winning percentage as the second criteria and then a coin flip if those two won’t do it. Our tie-breaks this season both took place in Division 4 – Grand Rapids South Christian received a home game against Wyoming Godwin Heights this week and St. Clair will host North Branch if they meet in a District Final. There are more possible meetings of teams with same averages in later rounds, and those ties will be broken the same way.

What is up with Division 6: Last year I had a “worst map ever,” and two of them this year would be in contention. Division 6 is the first – but the explanation for how we came up with what we did is simple. Region 1 is made up of two Districts with six schools from the northern Lower Peninsula and two from the Upper Peninsula. So however the Districts were sliced, two Lower Peninsula schools had to go with the U.P. And we settled this one strictly by comparing highway mileages of those Lower Peninsula teams to Mackinac Bridge (again, the only way to travel between the peninsulas). In the end, we placed Elk Rapids (93 miles) and Traverse City St. Francis (124) with Escanaba and Ishpeming Westwood because they are closest to the Bridge – followed by Kingsley (126), Maple City Glen Lake (144), Beaverton (161) and Tawas (168). The optics are strange – it may look like Glen Lake is driving past Elk Rapids and St. Francis on the way to Beaverton this week and potentially Tawas next. But Glen Lake’s route still travels south of those two schools this week (and depending on its chosen route on the way to Tawas as well), making everything fit – strangely looking, but nonetheless.

Lake Huron tour: You could see most of the American side by checking out this week’s Region 2 games in 8-player Division 2. This map also looks odd – there’s a bridge crossing and a drive around Saginaw Bay. Yet, after drawing this at least two more ways, we settled here – although Region 2 looks a little odd, all four teams are east of I-75 and north of Bay City.

Get your zoom on: We don’t enjoy splitting up teams that live next door to each other, but sometimes it’s a must. In Division 7 we were able to keep all eight Detroit-area and southeastern schools in Region 4, but the distance between its Districts came down to a few miles along I-96. In Division 2, we had to factor in outliers Port Huron Northern and Temperance Bedford – and the resulting Districts ended up splitting Livonia Churchill and Livonia Franklin.

At the end of the day …

I include this every year, but we draw the maps not knowing which schools are represented by the dots. At one point Sunday morning, I was wrong about which division we were considering at the time – and that’s a good thing. For the map drawing portion, it doesn’t matter.

But now that we know who is going where, here’s a glance at some stories that might emerge this week:

• We’ve got rivalries, like Portage Northern at Portage Central and Birmingham Groves at Birmingham Seaholm in Division 2, St. Johns at DeWitt and Haslett at East Lansing in Division 3, Constantine at Schoolcraft in Division 6 and Waterford Our Lady at Clarkston Everest Collegiate in Division 8 – plus Kingston at Deckerville in 8-player Division 1. There are many more we could mention – and some potential feuds renewed in two weeks as well depending on who wins this round.

• The Macomb Area Red, generally considered one of the strongest leagues annually in the state, sent four of six teams to the Division 1 playoffs – and they’re all in the same District. Champion Clinton Township Chippewa Valley (9-0) takes on Utica Eisenhower this week, and with a win would face either Macomb Dakota or Romeo after defeating both by just seven points during the regular season.

• Perhaps the most intriguing opener statewide is River Rouge (8-1) at Detroit Martin Luther King (7-2) in Division 3. Neither gets tested much during their league seasons, but both played tough nonleague opponents and the winner will be considered a favorite to make it to Ford Field.

• Farmington Hills Harrison holds the records for most MHSAA Finals appearances (18) and titles (13) and will play its final playoffs in Division 4 after finishing Division 3 runner-up a year ago. The school is closing next spring. Coach John Herrington is the winningest in state history with 441 wins and counting against only 111 losses (and a tie).

• There are a few annual powers not in the bracket this season – most notably Lowell, Muskegon Catholic Central and Menominee – and others like Rockford, Mendon and Grand Rapids West Catholic got in as additional qualifiers. West Catholic has won five straight Division 5 championships and opens at Hudsonville Unity Christian. The Falcons won the 2013 title after also entering as a 5-4 team.

• There are 34 teams entering the playoffs unbeaten, but only four Districts have multiple – Manistee and Reed City share one in Division 5, Traverse City St. Francis and Calumet in Division 6, Reading and Ottawa Lake Whiteford in Division 8, and Wyoming Tri-unity Christian and Morrice in 8-player Division 1. All of those potential matchups would happen in 11-Player District or 8-Player Regional Finals.

• This will be the eighth year of the 8-player tournament, and in Division 1 only Deckerville in 2012 has won an MHSAA championship in this format. In Division 2, reigning champion Crystal Falls Forest Park opens with 2015-16 back-to-back champion Powers North Central.

• In 8-player, three teams with 5-4 records didn’t make the field of 32, and two teams with 4-5 records advanced. This is the reality of measuring by playoff point average. Fife Lake Forest Area and Webberville are the 4-5 teams, and their opponents this season won more than 61 percent of their games. The three teams at 5-4 and one at 4-4 had opponents’ winning percentages between 38-56 percent.

Every school and every community can tell a story of making these playoffs, and over the next five weeks the fortunate will continue to write chapters filled with moments that will never be forgotten. We’re looking forward to watching them all unfold.

PHOTOS: (Top) The Division 6 map shows an odd-looking scenario with two Traverse City-area teams in the same District as two from the Upper Peninsula. (Middle) The 8-player Division 2 map shows how schools are connected to a District along the Lake Huron shoreline.

Bath and Perry faced off under the lights and rain in Week 9, and both will continue as the playoffs begin this weekend.

1st & Goal: 2023 Week 9 Review

By Geoff Kimmerly
MHSAA.com senior editor

October 23, 2023

By now, you’ve likely moved on to prepping for this weekend’s start of the 2023 Football Playoffs. We don’t blame you – it’s impossible to not look forward at this time of year.

MI Student AidBut we like to say we tell the stories behind the scores – and the Week 9 regular-season scores below tell a lot of the story of how we got here and what’s set to begin.

(And join us again Friday as we switch up the “1st & Goal” preview format to take a look at matchups in every playoff division.)

Bay & Thumb

HEADLINER Davison 56, Lapeer 55 The Saginaw Valley League Red title race went down to the final minutes and last points of the regular season as Davison (9-0) held on to claim the outright championship; a Lapeer win would have awarded a share of the title to runner-up Grand Blanc. What’s next? The Lightning (5-4) go back to Davison for a Division 1 District Semifinal on Friday. Click for more from the Flint Journal.

Watch list Harbor Beach 17. Beal City 8 This was among the headliners statewide as Harbor Beach (8-1) not only handed Beal City (8-1) its only loss but also leaped to No. 6 on the final playoff-points average list.

On the move Frankenmuth 38, Gladwin 0 Frankenmuth (8-1) went on the road for a rematch of last season’s Division 5 Final, won by Gladwin 10-7 on a closing-seconds field goal, and this time finished a regular-season run that guaranteed home games at least through the Regional and could include hosting the Flying Gs (7-2). Midland Dow 29, Midland 9 This got Dow (5-4) into the playoffs and boosted the Chargers enough to keep them home for a rematch with the Chemics (5-4) this week. Freeland 35, Croswell-Lexington 32 Freeland came back from 26 points down to not only get to (8-1) but eventually earn home field for this week’s game against Lake Fenton, which entered Week 9 only one spot behind the Falcons on the Division 4 playoff-points average list.

Greater Detroit

HEADLINER Lake Orion 35, Saline 28 These two entered both undefeated and Nos. 4 and 5, respectively, on the Division 1 playoff-points average list. Lake Orion (9-0) finished the weekend with its first perfect regular season since 2006 and the top spot overall in Division 1, guaranteeing itself three home playoff games. The Dragons took their first lead with 4:36 to play. Saline (8-1) moved down only to No. 6 on the Division 1 list and will be home this week as well. Click for more from the Detroit Free Press.

Watch list Harper Woods 24, Roseville 7 The Pioneers (6-3) continued their rise from a 1-2 start and continued to benefit from a loaded schedule by moving up six spots to No. 1 on the final Division 4 playoff-points average list after avenging last season’s 28-0 loss to the Panthers (6-3).

On the move Belleville 42, Northville 0 Belleville (9-0) posted its third-straight shutout and fifth this season to claim the overall Kensington Lakes Activities Association title; the Tigers could see Northville  (8-1) again in a Regional Final. Oxford 24, Detroit U-D Jesuit 21 Oxford (4-5) climbed in the top 32 in Division 1 playoff-point average last week for the first time this season and stayed there by edging Jesuit (6-2). Birmingham Seaholm 21, Birmingham Groves 14 Seaholm (8-1) broke a four-game losing streak against its rival, and after falling to Groves in both in the regular season and playoffs last year – and the Maples will host the Falcons (6-3) again this week.

Mid-Michigan

HEADLINER East Lansing 35, Grand Ledge 21 East Lansing (7-2) finished an outright Capital Area Activities Conference Blue championship, its first league title since sharing the Blue in 2019, and jumped up to No. 10 on the Division 2 playoff-points average list while securing home games through the District Final. Grand Ledge (6-3), last year’s Blue co-champion, narrowly missed getting a home game and will travel in Division 1. Click for more from the Lansing State Journal.

Watch list Portland 43, Berrien Springs 0 The Raiders (9-0) capped their first perfect regular season since 2018 with their second straight shutout and this one over another league champion in Berrien Springs (5-3).

On the move Hastings 38, Battle Creek Pennfield 3 Hastings (7-2) clinched the outright Interstate 8 Activities Conference title, the Saxons’ fourth-straight league championship (including one shared), but Pennfield also can be pleased finishing 4-5 after going 0-9 a year ago. Belding 66, Howard City Tri County 20 The Black Knights (8-1) scored a season high in their best win of the regular season as they finished 8-1 for the second straight. Tri County (7-2) helped provide the boost to keep Belding No. 5 on the final Division 5 playoff-points average list. Bath 28, Perry 6 While Perry (5-4) did still qualify for the playoffs for the first time, Bath (6-3) celebrated on this night and has made the playoffs for the second straight while also earning a home game this week in Division 7.

Northern Lower Peninsula

HEADLINER Gaylord 20, Sault Ste. Marie 8 Just two seasons after going 2-7, Gaylord (9-0) completed its first perfect regular season since 2002 and finished off a Big North Conference outright championship in the process. The win also kept Gaylord at No. 6 in Division 3 playoff-points average and guaranteed them home games through the District, but also likely kept Sault Ste. Marie (5-4) out of claiming one of the final spots in the Division 4 bracket. Click for more from the Petoskey News-Review.

Watch list Traverse City St. Francis 27, Muskegon Catholic Central 0 Last season’s Division 7 runner-up Gladiators had a lot of faces in different places or larger roles starting this fall, but they’ve qualified for the Division 7 playoffs thanks to a tough schedule and three wins over playoff teams including this one over MCC (5-4).

On the move Cheboygan 29, Benzie Central 25 Proving again that there’s always something to play for, Cheboygan (1-8) scored a season high in points, gave up their second fewest and closed a tough fall with an upset of playoff-bound Benzie (5-4). Traverse City West 17, Traverse City Central 8 Central (4-5) grabbed one of the final spots in the Division 2 playoff field and West (4-5) fell just three outside of qualifying, but the Titans surely should celebrate doubling their win total from a year ago and breaking a four-game losing streak against their rival. Ogemaw Heights 21, Almont 7 Ogemaw Heights (8-1) tied its winningest season since 2009, handing Almont (8-1) its only defeat, and earned a rematch, this time at home, against the only team it lost to this fall – Week 1 opponent Gladwin.

A Lapeer defender pursues a Davison ball carrier during Friday's 56-55 Cardinals win.

Southeast & Border

HEADLINER Addison 24, Napoleon 0 The timing couldn’t have been better for Addison to show arguably its best performance. The Panthers (9-0) earned the overall Cascades Conference championship in this matchup of previous undefeated divisional winners, posting their first shutout of the fall against an offense that was scoring 42 points per game, to avenge last year’s 36-18 loss and to move up to No. 5 on the Division 8 playoff-points average list with a home game against Hudson coming up next. Napoleon (8-1) will open the playoffs at home as well. Click for more from the Jackson Citizen Patriot.

Watch list Clinton 29, Hudson 0 With its second-straight shutout, Clinton (8-1) clinched an outright championship in the Lenawee County Athletic Association for the second-straight season. A Hudson win would have meant a shared title with the Tigers (7-2). Clinton has four shutouts this fall and suffered its only loss in the season opener.

On the move Chelsea 31, Dexter 21 After opening in August with a loss to Grand Rapids Northview, Chelsea (8-1) has been on a roll and made its loudest statement against the Dreadnaughts (6-3), who also hadn’t lost since starting 0-2. Ida 14, Dundee 7 Ida (5-4) jumped from No. 32 to a more comfortable No. 25 in Division 6 playoff-point average with this win, while Dundee (5-4) was left four spots outside the field in Division 5. Monroe St. Mary Catholic Central 28, Detroit Country Day 27 A tough schedule already had SMCC (5-4) in fine shape to make the playoffs, but the Falcons have won three straight to move up to No. 5 on the Division 7 playoff-points average list, in this one handing County Day (3-5) its third loss by six or fewer points this fall.

Southwest Corridor

HEADLINER Niles 56, Paw Paw 18 Niles pulled away from what had been a much closer game at halftime, in doing so claiming the Wolverine Conference championship outright and assuring itself of home games through the Regional. Moreover, the Vikings (8-1) reached eight wins for the first time since 1979, according to Michigan-Football.com, and they could host Paw Paw (8-1) if both win their Division 4 District Semifinals this week. Click for more from the Niles Daily Star.

Watch list Buchanan 34, Union City 0 The Bucks (6-3) enter the Division 6 playoffs on an impressive defensive streak, as they haven’t given up a point over their last three games – including this one against the playoff-bound Chargers (6-3).

On the move South Haven 44, Kalamazoo United 42 South Haven (6-3) will host a Division 5 playoff opener after edging the Titans (5-4), who had defeated the Rams the last two seasons including in a 2021 playoff opener. Benton Harbor 24, Hopkins 16 The Tigers’ playoff chances seemed slimmer after a tough run midseason during which they lost two one-score games over three weeks, but Benton Harbor (4-5) won two of its final three games to qualify for the playoffs for the first time since 2017 (not counting 2020, when all teams qualified because of the COVID-adjusted schedule). Portage Central 42, Stevensville Lakeshore 0 Portage Central (8-1) completed an outright championship run in the Southwestern Michigan Athletic Conference with its first shutout of the fall. Lakeshore (5-4) has reason to be pleased as well this week, as it finished the regular season back in the playoffs and two wins better than a year ago.

Upper Peninsula

HEADLINER Iron Mountain 42, Negaunee 7 There’s conversation that Iron Mountain (9-0) may be the Upper Peninsula’s best team regardless of division this fall, and it’s hard to argue with success. The Mountaineers haven’t been challenged much after moving into the Western Peninsula Athletic Conference Iron, but this win over Copper co-champion Negaunee (7-2) says plenty and kept Iron Mountain in position to host both District rounds. Click for more from UPMatters.com.

Watch list Kingsford 46, Marquette 11 Kingsford is the other side of the argument for best in the UP, and the Flivvers (8-1) have their most wins since 2017 and are a one-point loss to Negaunee from a perfect regular season. This defeat of Division 3 Marquette (5-3) pushed Kingsford to No. 10 on the Division 5 playoff-points average list.  

On the move Menominee 44, Bark River-Harris 14 The Maroons (7-2) bounced back from back-to-back losses to hold steady at No. 7 on the Division 7 playoff-points average list, but ended playoff hopes for Bark River-Harris (5-4) in the process. Gladstone 30, Escanaba 0 Gladstone (7-2) is No. 6 on the Division 6 list and will be home for both District rounds as well. Ishpeming 30, Ishpeming Westwood 0 The Hematites (6-3) have their best record since 2019 after ending a three-game losing streak to rival Westwood.

West Michigan

HEADLINER Wayland 49, Grand Rapids South Christian 40 Wayland not only qualified for the playoffs for the first time since 2013 (not counting 2020’s COVID-related format), but the Wildcats (6-3) with this win downed the reigning Division 4 champion and reached six wins for the first time since that playoff season a decade ago. They’ll go to South Christian (6-3) this week for a Division 4 District Semifinal. Click for more from Michigan Sports Radio.

Watch list Hart 44, Ravenna 0 Hart (8-1) will be making its first playoff appearance this week (not counting 2020), coming off its first win over Ravenna (3-6) since 1992 and after losing to the Bulldogs 48-0 a year ago. The eight wins are the program’s most since 1968.

On the move Rockford 48, Hudsonville 0 The Rams (9-0) finished an outright Ottawa-Kent Conference Red championship and fourth-straight perfect regular season, and could see Hudsonville (5-4) again in a District Final. Muskegon Reeths-Puffer 14, Zeeland West 12 After losing to West by 40 two seasons ago and 18 last fall, Reeths-Puffer (7-2) edged the Dux (6-3) to get to seven wins for the first time since 2013. Zeeland East 21, Muskegon Mona Shores 20 (OT) Similarly, East (6-3) had fallen to Mona Shores (6-3) by 19 in 2021 and then 35 last year before this win that boosted the Chix to No. 16 on the Division 3 playoff-points average list.

8-Player

HEADLINER Indian River Inland Lakes 36, Gaylord St. Mary 30 Inland Lakes (8-1) ran its Ski Valley Conference title streak to all three since joining the league, taking this winner-take-all matchup. Inland Lakes also moved up to No. 5 on the 8-player Division 1 playoff-points average list, while St. Mary (6-3) fell two spots and missed qualifying by four slots. Click for more from the Petoskey News-Review.

Watch list Posen 46, Au Gres-Sims 42 This winner-take-all for the North Star League Little Dipper title went Posen’s way after Au Gres-Sims (7-2) won their Week 9 matchup last season to claim the championship. Posen is 8-0 and set to host both Division 2 Regional rounds.

On the move Fulton 36, Carson City-Crystal 28 Fulton (6-3) sat three spots off the Division 2 playoff list heading into the weekend, but reached the final spot in the field by handing Carson City-Crystal (8-1) its only loss. Powers North Central 48, Crystal Falls Forest Park 24 The three-time reigning Division 2 champion Jets (7-2) also were in danger of missing the playoffs in the No. 16 slot when the weekend began – but moved up to No. 14 by getting past the Trojans (7-2). They could meet again in a Regional Final. St. Ignace 42, Pickford 10 The Saints (8-1) handed Pickford its only loss, limiting an offense that entered averaging 54 points per game. A rematch would come in a Division 1 Semifinal.

Second Half’s weekly “1st & Goal” previews and reviews are powered by MI Student Aid, a part of the Office of Postsecondary Financial Planning located within the Michigan Department of Treasury. MI Student Aid encourages students to pursue postsecondary education by providing access to student financial resources and information. MI Student Aid administers the state’s 529 college savings programs (MET/MESP), as well as scholarship and grant programs that help make college Accessible, Affordable and Attainable for you. Connect with MI Student Aid at www.michigan.gov/mistudentaid and find more information on Facebook and X (Twitter) @mistudentaid.

PHOTO Bath and Perry faced off under the lights and rain in Week 9, and both will continue as the playoffs begin this weekend. (Middle) A Lapeer defender pursues a Davison ball carrier during Friday's 56-55 Cardinals win. (Top photo by Max McCallister. Middle photo by Terry Lyons.)